Hot take: the 2020 Tacoma isn't better with the manual

"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97) 11/23/2019 at 20:25 • Filed to: Unnecessary car shopping with ITA97

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I wandered over the direction of the Toyota dealership in town to poke around a 3rd gen Tacoma, as one does. I’ve spent plenty of time in 1st and 2nd gen Tacos, and I’ve always lusted after them if only my towing needs were a bit less. I’m not really in the market, and I’m still a happy camper with the F-150, but you all know how it is.

It turns out the dealer had not one, but two TRD off road tacos with the 3.5 V6/6-speed manual/TRD off-road package. I couldn’t help it, I had take it for a drive. The results were... not what I expected. It was fine, but only just... fine. The clutch was light, but long (what I expected), and shifter was very well positioned and throws are certainly shorter than a 1st gen taco. What surprised me was that the truck felt under powered, and just generally like the gearbox, gear spacing and engine tuning were all done by different folks who never happened to talk to each other. The 3.5 isn’t under powered per se , and it made nice enough noises with enough revs, but with the manual it felt like driving a truck from the 90's or 00's unless really given the beans at the top of the rev range.

I also didn’t like the gear spacing. 1st was super short. Almost, but not quite, a granny gear. 2nd was too tall for moderate acceleration from parking lot speeds without shuddering (and forget starting in 2nd), and the gap between the gears felt too big for normal driving with the flow of traffic. Conversely, 4th, 5th,and 6th seemed too closely spaced together.

The under powered thing REALLY came in on the highway. At 70mph in 6th, the truck could only slowly gather speed when the pedal was planted to the floor. Pulling out the next lane to pass requires a downshift to 5th in a way that belied the fact the truck had 278hp. The whole experience just felt like the manual’s gearing just wasn’t well matched to the truck.

Because there wasn’t much else happening there at nearly 5:00 on a Saturday, the salesman obliged my request to go back out in an auto truck for comparison. The difference was tremendous. Apparently a torque converted makes all the difference on these trucks. The 3.5/6-speed auto felt like driving an entirely different vehicle. The taco felt adequately powered, and maybe a bit more under some conditions, and the engine and auto box seemed to be on the same program at all times. It always seemed to do what it should be doing. At 70mph on the highway, the auto could pull out in the next lane and moderately accelerate without downshifting.

With an auto, it was a nice little truck to drive. They’re nothing like my reg cab/short bed/2.7tt/short gears 2017 F-150 that would drive circles around one of these under every acceleration scenario, but I could foresee a scenario where I own one of these small trucks. The ride was as soft as tacos of old, but handled better. This would be a killer truck on a washboarded-dirt road.

Some final observations:

The low seating position in all seats is an interesting ergonomic choice on these trucks. I don’t mind it at 5'7”, but I’m not sure the less vertically challenged would find them as comfortable. I was also surprised by the amount of hard plastic on the interior. The 2nd truck was kitted out with leather, sunroof, good stereo and all the tech toys, yet is had far fewer soft-touch interior surfaces than my XL trim F-150 does. For the price, I expected better.

All that said, do I want one of these trucks? Yes I do, but not with the manual. I’m all for save the manuals, but in the case of the current taco it isn’t the better choice. It felt like an after thought that wasn’t well integrated with the rest of the drivetrain. I would consider owning a TRD offroad package with the shortbed, and probably just the cloth seat and no sunroof package. I came away feeling the top of the line leather package stuff felt out of place given the rest of the interior.

I wanted to fall in love with a 4x4/TRD off-road package/6-speed manual Tacoma, but I left thinking anyone who bought the manual probably bought the wrong truck.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/23/2019 at 20:47

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I’m not mad that you didn’t like the manual, ( always glad to read people’s thoughts/experiences with cars)   but does the automatic not downshift from the top gear when you floor it doing 70mph on the freeway?

Expecting a sub 300hp truck to feel fast when you’re actively putting the engine at a   disadvantage with the gear ratios doesn’t make sense to me.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 11/23/2019 at 20:54

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Oh yes, it downshifts. My point was that auto doesn’t have to unless you actually need heavy acceleration. It can manage moderate acceleration in normal freeway driving without the downshift via unlocking the torque converter. The manual on the other hand could muster nothing more than slowly gathering speed. Like are we dragging something slow, or trying to climb  a hill in a 80's Honda without turning off the A/C. Every acceleration scenario on the highway is going to require a downshift to 5th in the manual.

Spanfeller is a twat > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/23/2019 at 21:00

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You’re not wrong, but I want you to be. 

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 11/23/2019 at 21:01

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Me too. I wanted to fall in love with one and start pondering how to make an unnecessary car buying decision in the future.

HammerheadFistpunch > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/23/2019 at 21:08

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It’ s not the manual, the 3.5 is gutless in the low revs. It’ s amazing how much softer it feels to the much less powerful 4.0. All the power is 4000 and up, and given it doesn’t rev past 6, thats not a lot to play with.

i understand the 2020 models got a recalibrated transmission program which help a TON compared to the first calibration.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch 11/23/2019 at 21:16

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That maybe where the new calibration is better taking advantage of the torque converter. The auto truck never felt under powered, even low in rev range. It felt like a moderately powered truck should in 2019. The gear spacing is just wrong on the manual. A shorter gears in the diffs would help some, but it just needs to be rethought out. I could live with the too short 1st if 2nd, 3rd and 4th were also shifted shorter. I would make for logical gearing around town (and usable with a light trailer, say 50 00lbs, behind it from a stoplight ) , while leaving 6th for highway cruising and the closer 5th for any passing on the highway.  Or, maybe it just works out better with the added engine power of not being at 5000ft in elevation without a turbo.

Spanfeller is a twat > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/23/2019 at 21:22

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yeah, but as you said, that 2.7 in the F150 is very strong... it seems like you’re well sorted for a while!

wafflesnfalafel > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/23/2019 at 21:42

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interesting the only offer the manual in the higher spec models and only with the v6

CRider > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/23/2019 at 22:02

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Outdated interior, a d rivetrain with no power that gets worse gas mileage than your much faster F-150. What makes you want this truck? 

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > CRider 11/23/2019 at 22:07

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Compact dimensions, very nice off road geometry, such a nice, soft suspension offroad, will run until world ends, and the magic of seemingly non-deprecation. If I were to buy one of these in the future, it would be for a different use case than my current F-150 was purchased for.

There is a possible future scenario in which my racecar is sold and I turn to the two wheels good side of things for driving excitement. If that were to come to pass, I don’t need 1/2 ton truck towing capability in the way I do now.

Shankems > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/23/2019 at 22:34

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I don’t know what kind of car is going to accelerate acceptably in 6th. (Gt500/Demon?) I always drop to 5th to accelerate , and that is with a mildly   supercharged v8.

Richie T > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/23/2019 at 22:34

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This article does Toyota’s marketing work for them. They don’t want to admit, and purists don’t want to accept, that manual transmissions are dead. It’s clear from reading this article that they haven’t invested in the M/T. And why would they? Automatic transmissions have gotten too good. Sure, they could design a 10-speed M/T for the real hot-heads out there, but at what cost?  Sorry bros, but if you're buying a $50k truck, you're gonna want to drink your coffee without having to steer with your knees. 

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Richie T 11/23/2019 at 22:40

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Much of this.  I love a good manual transmission, but at this point they’re a technical problem that has been solved.  

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Shankems 11/23/2019 at 23:00

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The taco with the auto I drove five minutes was fine with moderate acceleration in 6th.

Pervia > HammerheadFistpunch 11/23/2019 at 23:04

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I had the 3.5L + 6-speed for a year, and it really is all about the torque curve of the 3.5L 2GR-FKS vs what people might expect based on their previous experiences with the 4.0L 1GR-FE that was previously used in the Tacoma. Peak torque is almost identical between the 2 engines, but peak torque isn’t until 4600RPM with the 2GR, and that shifter  does not make it easy to downshift quickly in a highway overtake situation.

Heres a graph from a slightly different tune (SUV version vs truck version) from Toyota’s SAE paper about the engine ( https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2015-01-1972/ )

https://twstatic.net/attachments/upload_2015-11-15_16-24-19-jpg.822748/

4wsprelude > HammerheadFistpunch 11/23/2019 at 23:43

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I have the 06' tacoma X-runner with the 6 speed transmission and the 4.0 with vvti. It’s great in my opinion. I’ve heard the new 3.5 is gutless so I would say so. In 6th in my taco i don't  really need to shift out of gear for it to go from 60-70mph. It’s slow but still able to even going uphill.

4wsprelude > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/23/2019 at 23:46

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I have the 06' taco   X-runner with the 4.0 v6 with vvti and 6 speed manual. I have no problem with acceleration in 6th. Get a X-runner if you want a manual. 

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > 4wsprelude 11/24/2019 at 00:08

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I suspect that manual may well be taken straight out of the old 4.0 power train, because it sure wasn’t geared for the 3.5. There was a guy back I the day that used to autocross an X-runner with the local region. For me, if I ever o wn a t it will be an off road machine that I could still drive to work.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/24/2019 at 00:09

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The worst thing about it is the rev hang. I hat e any rev hang. So unnatural. And the shifter itself is quite notchy. The bite point of the clutch pedal is far too high for me. It shouldn’t be easier to drive my 40-year old Toyota truck, but it is.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 11/24/2019 at 00:22

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I actually didn’t find the rev hang too objectionable. It was far less than the 2016 Mustang in the household, but it would still be noticable if you were trying to shift quickly. My understanding is that rev hang in modern manuals is largely a function of emissions to avoid that momentary rich condition when revs fall quickly, along with some added rotating mass from everything having dual mass flywheels. If Toyota had invested in matching the gearing in the manual to  the engine and tuning to match, I’d probably have fallen in love with it.

CRider > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/24/2019 at 00:52

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They are decent off road, but I wouldn’t call them compact . For geometry, the Jeep has it beat though I suppse the SFA might hurt the ride quality a bit. Those also have the non-depreciation trait.

If you do see the light and turn to the two weels side, you could just throw your bikes in the back of the F-150 and tow a side by side if you wanted to go off road in a four wheeler. Those things are ridiculously popular these days. 

baguette > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/24/2019 at 07:37

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the manuals of old had a direct connection to the throttle body via a cable now this drive by wire crap with rev hang has totally disconnected the driver from the experience of a manual . Couple that with a car engine in a truck and you’ve got yourself a turd. the tacoma manual IS a kit, just a cheap plastic pedal master cylinder combo unit bolted to the floor. Toyota isn't what it used to be, it's still riding a reputation from it's past

bhtooefr > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/24/2019 at 07:45

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Automatic: 3.909 rear axle, 0.58 6th gear

Manual: 4.30 rear axle, 0.71 6th gear

...is the automatic unlocking the torque converter when you ask for moderate acceleration in 6th, instead of downshifting, I wonder? Because the automatic’s gearing is much taller...

Unruly > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/24/2019 at 08:48

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At 5'4 I have zero issues with driving the Tacoma. Nor would I want a soft interior truck. The plastic areas are easy to clean. It’s a truck! It gets filthy! I’ve owned every generation Toyota pickup since the early 80"s. All of which have been manual. 4, 5, and 6 gear boxes.  I agree on only one point that the clutch is much softer than generations passed. But this doesn't hinder on road driving if you know how to adapt a little. Off road requires a lot of adapting but it simply comes down to knowing your gearbox and how it reacts. It's not an issue to me. Anyone who thinks 6th gear is a passing gear is a fool! Drop a gear and disappear as they say. Sounds to me that you should stay with the automatic gearbox if you just want to mash the pedal and go! I'm also laughing that you are comparing a Ford f150 to a Tacoma in the first place.  One last thing related to towing. Go ahead tow your toys or RV to the nearest campground and unload. I will keep on going about another 20 miles into the mountains to pitch my tent alongside of my 14 Tacoma SR5. 

Jdumas > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/24/2019 at 08:49

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Yout have to get use to it. I love my 2018 6 speed. By I would agree that there is to little power a low RPM in the 3.5L. It’s not the transmission, it might actually help. But the engines power band doesn’t start until 4000 RPM then it puts you in the seat. I’ve learned how to drive it and it’s a fine truck. You took it for one drive sir probably the dealerships test drive route. If you want a new midsize truck and a manual. It’s the only way to go. You can get a stripped down 4cyl Colorado or a 15 year old band new Frontier. 

Jdumas > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 11/24/2019 at 08:52

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I think that might but slow reflexes Dr. I have no problem with rev hang. Try lifting your foot faster.

Jdumas > CRider 11/24/2019 at 09:39

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It can go places your f-150 can’t go. It  can tow anything I need and fits in my garage. And isn't a ugly Ford.

Jdumas > HammerheadFistpunch 11/24/2019 at 09:46

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My ex bought a 2gen 4.0 6 speed after we broke up. We still go mudding together. And we both prefer the new setup. It’s about learning how to drive it like any vehicle. 

Jdumas > Pervia 11/24/2019 at 09:48

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I have no downshift problems. I feel like people complaining can't really drive stick.

Jdumas > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 11/24/2019 at 09:51

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Thank you nobody said the Taco was fast. Not what it was built for. 

Jdumas > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/24/2019 at 09:52

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Try downshifting put in 4th plenty of passing power

Jdumas > Shankems 11/24/2019 at 09:54

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Thank you 6th gear is overdrive. Gas mileage gear. Drop to 4th and you can pass easy

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > HammerheadFistpunch 11/24/2019 at 10:03

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Wait, a recalibrated manual transmission? How does that work? I wonder if Toyota is still using their lame cable shifters 

HammerheadFistpunch > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 11/24/2019 at 11:01

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no, the auto.

MultiplaOrgasms > Shankems 11/24/2019 at 11:37

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Any old turbo diesel will acceptably pull in 6th, but that is because at 70mph it’ll be right around peak torque. 

Tprice90 > HammerheadFistpunch 11/24/2019 at 12:38

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2k rpm is not a terrible power band. If you go with the manual trans, you have complete control over the shiift points. Thumbs down to the author for terrible speculation about the gear ratios. Granny gear? Try to get a truck hauling max capacity going with an aggressive first gear. Face palm

Mark > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/24/2019 at 12:57

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Gow to say got a 2019 manual sucks no low end power acts like a power band .put tuner on fixed issues. Last 2 Tacoma trans issues banging noise warranty work done never found problems ect .talk pages had all the same problems I had no recall.fix alot of stuff myself ...Toyota used to take pride in there work drop the ball.i dont trust them no more but I did get a deal on my 2019 pro from owner at dealer .

Engineer Jaron > HammerheadFistpunch 11/24/2019 at 15:46

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This. Found a dealer two years ago that had all 4 combos I wanted to drive: manual and auto 4.0 cpo Tacoma s, and manual and auto 3.5 Tacoma s. All crew cabs. The 4.0 is just a better truck engine, and the auto is necessary compensation for the 3.5. I would’ve driven the 3.5/manual home that day if it wasn’t gutless on the highway. Guess my LS motors just spoil me with endless low  end torque.

YukonKarl > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/24/2019 at 15:57

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It will run until the end of the world? Maybe if it had the 4.0L V6. Unfortunately the 3rd gen is stuck with the inferior 3.5L V6. Also, Tacomas have a legacy of rust rot. Even if the engine somehow lasted that long, the rest of the truck would have turned to red dust in less than 10 years. Maybe Toyota will give it a new frame after the next class action lawsuit over rust rot. Then again maybe they won't.

YukonKarl > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/24/2019 at 16:32

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The gear spacing is optimized for fuel economy. A short first is for off-roading, 2nd and up are taller to help the truck in EPA FE testing.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > YukonKarl 11/24/2019 at 16:59

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Rust?  Never met her.  I live in a desert.  I can buy 30 year old cars and trucks that don’t even have surface rust on the threads of suspension fasteners.  

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > CRider 11/24/2019 at 17:19

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Compared to the 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks I’ve daily driven and played with off road over the years , a Tacoma feels... cute to drive. I have no interest in rock crawling, but running former mining trails in the mountains or driving arroyos in the lowlands to remote, designated camping spots where the distance between me (and maybe a few friends, sometimes) and the nearest living human is measured in the dozens of miles or better, and the distance from paved roads in the hours, in Western NM is what I like to do . My 2wd F-150 with an electronic, locking rear end has worked fine for more limited versions of this the last few years so long as I generally stick to designated c ounty/ BLM/FS roads  of some type and keep an eye on the weather forecasts during monsoon season.

I’d struggle to bring myself to buy most FCA products, and I’m not sure I would be okay with being seen owning a W rangler/Gladiator (bro). Those two trucks hold very little appeal to me.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > bhtooefr 11/24/2019 at 18:36

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It is, but it works.  I’d guess it is also a lot smaller of a fuel economy hit than downshifting to 5th all the time with the manual. 

CRider > Jdumas 11/24/2019 at 19:39

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OK boomer 

CRider > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/24/2019 at 19:48

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Anothing bigger than a half ton is not really designed to play off road, even the Power Wagon is just too bi g for trails . If you want to drive in the desert, your options are TRD Pro Tacoma (which is highl y priced and has no locker), the ZR2, and the Raptor ( highly priced but undisputed king of the desert).

I wouldn’t discount a vehicle because of the parent company, and the Wrangler (and maybe the JT) is one of the things they know how to do properly. If you can’t stand the image of Jeep owners but think a TRD Taco is different, well... They’re both driven by the same people. In the California deserts where I like to play, everyone is driving Tacos, Jeeps and side by sides.

Somedude > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/24/2019 at 20:13

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I don’t usually respond to these sorts of things, but I kinda feel like I have to as an owner of one of these things. A 19 DCSB manual TRD OR. All in all, I love my truck... Mainly because I wanted a truck, and I’m bored to death driving anything with 2 pedals.

1) I’ve towed with mine. With a n empty trailer at 70mph I was able to gain speed up hill without downshifting. Was it fast? Hell no. Was it adequate? Absolutely. This nonsense about not being able to pass people is just that.

2) The power band is much more “ car like” (I guess?) in that the low end is severely lacking and all the power comes in up top after the 3500rpm hit. There’s Dyno charts showing that.

3) The Rev hang is undetectable during normal driving and a buzz kill during anything more aggressive than that. Shift above 4k and it feels like you’re waiting for days for the revs to come down for the next gear.

4) complaining that 2nd is too high ‘in case you forgot you’re in 2nd’? Come on, if you can’t drive a manual, don’t buy a manual.

The taco hung with all the wranglers at the last trail event I went to, and it was an absolute blast. I wouldn’t be able to say the same about an F150, and I would not have had as much fun in anything with an auto (another Tacoma included) . Period.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > CRider 11/24/2019 at 20:32

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Funny, I rarely see anything smaller than 3/4 ton diesels off-road where I like to visit, but that’s also a function of working, open- range ranch country. You can’t do much serious work with a 1/2 ton. I wouldn’t consider any of those trucks on price alone , plus the softer, long-trav el suspensions are no bueno for doing much else. If I’m running an arroyo, I’m never exceeding more than about 10mph in anything, HMMWV driving days in the USMC included. Playing B aja racer only really works if you’re driving on established roads or across dunes . Even driving out on the beach at the lake is low speed thing. Anyone whipping around out there is going to find themselves in non-voluntary conversations with park rangers in a hurry, and there are no OHVs allowed in state parks anyway (outside of official use by those particular government folks).  

Around here, the taco is almost the official vehicle of the liberal, active young educated types and active middle aged folks. If your’re extra crunchy, you drive a S ubaru. Wranglers, Raptors and any lifted truck with Method wheels are driven by douchbros that were in fraternities. I intentionally go camping in much more remote areas than those folks are ever found in.

This was just speculatively driving a truck I like. Unless or until I sell the racecar, towing needs dictate a half-ton based tow vehicle or better anyway. Plus, my new job includes a substantial field component going to remote sites around the Southern part of the state. It is possible that my wanderlust might be end up more regularly satisfied while I’m on the clock in my government truck anyway.

CRider > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/24/2019 at 22:28

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In SoCal OHV parks you never see HD trucks unless they’re tow vehicles or work trucks . Out in BLM land, you’ve got your utilities guys in their work trucks but they stick to pole and fir e roads. If you’re near a military base, you might see something more interesting. Drones and fighter jets are a regular sight in the sky out there.

Out in the BLM land, you’re free to run however you want. There’s no much open use area out here, especially in the designated OHVRAs, where you can run *anything*.

Bros drive everything . If you worry too much about the image your car might put off, buy an Accord. Tacoma drivers are 50% bros and guys who think they have Raptors (they put orange marker lights in their grill, which is just embarassing ). Your perception of them is that they’re young and liberal . The fact is, anyone who can afford a t ruck like a Taco is going to fit a certain demographic of people who want to go off road, don’t need to tow a lot, and can afford a ~ $40k vehicle. Same as people who buy Jeeps, Subarus or Mustangs.

*Correction from earlier. I said the Taco TRD Pro has no locker. I was thinking of the Tundra.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/25/2019 at 09:01

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They must have done a lot of work improving the auto for 2020, because the 2018 I test drove suuucked. Was hunting for gears like crazy.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/25/2019 at 15:42

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“They’re nothing like my reg cab/short bed/2.7tt/short gears 2017 F-150 that would drive circles around one of these under every acceleration scenario,”

I’m guessing one aspect to the situation is the F150 has a better power-to-weight situation happening.

The Toyota has 278HP moving around about 4450lbs... about 16lbs per hp.

The Ford has 325HP moving around maybe 4700lbs.... about 14bls per hp. .. and probably a LOT more low end torque.

jasmits > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/25/2019 at 16:35

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Oh boy, life got busy so I’ve been MIA from Oppo for the past year or so till this Monday morning I decide to give ol’ Oppo a look and this heresy is what I come back to!? Let’s just hold on a minute here.

I happen to be the owner of a 2018 Tacoma TRD Off-Road with the correct number of pedals(3). I have come back out of hiding to express my strong disagreement. Since I bought it just about two years ago in December of 2017 I have accumulated nearly 65,000 miles(nope, not a typo) of hard use, thousands of which were off pavement. Here’s just some of the adventures it’s taken me on (and these are all just from the past month or so):

So, here’s the thing. I am in absolute agreement that they did a shit job of selecting the ratios. As an off roader, I very much appreciate the super short first. Helps the crawl ratio in low range, and gives me the ability to creep along at a reasonable pace even if I’m not in low range. Also great for idling along in traffic or starting on a hill if you’re towing. But the gap to second is way too big, and on the opposite side the gap between fifth and sixth is way too small, to the point that I almost always accelerate up to speed in fourth and skip shift to sixth getting onto the highway, only really ever using fifth on highway grades or as a travel gear on 55 mph two lane back roads. If it was up to me 1st would be as it is, 5th would be direct drive(instead of 4th being direct as it is currently ) with 2nd, 3rd, and 4th being much closer. Also reverse is too tall(like why? who needs to go 30mph in reverse? Why would it ever be taller than first?)

But, weird ratios and all, I simply wouldn’t have the same love for my truck that I do if it were an automatic. I’m of the belief that the soul of a vehicle is most easily found through the clutch pedal. That’s not to say it can’t be found elsewhere, but the vehicle needs to have a lot of personality to shine through. A Tacoma’s a bit of an appliance, it’s a very good appliance that has transported me many far away and difficult to reach places, but it’s still an appliance. Without the manual it feels a bit soulless, with the manual it really does have some character. A stick shift 4x4 is just plain fun. I just leave it in low range even on gravel forest roads and all of a sudden you have the closest ratio gearbox in the world zipping around at under 40mph. I really don’t have much of a practical argument for it(although I genuinely perfer a stick off road for the finer control over power delivery, in particular when descending). What I do have are some practical fixes for what you don’t like about it. Especially if starting out uphill you simply need to rev it up to or past 3k in first. It won’t hurt it, in fact it’s better for an engine to let it rev out a bit than it is to lug it all the time. Same thing with passing. Drop it to fourth, problem solved. People are too afraid of using the loud pedal , the 2GR takes a lot of flak on Toyota 4x4 sites in particular because it feels a bit gutless. It is just fine if you aren’t afraid of using the upper half of the rev range, it’s there for a reason and given the durability standards any modern engine is tested to you can bounce it off the rev limiter all day without hurting it.

Rant over, it is a great truck and you’d probably be very happy with it even with the auto. But give the stick a chance, it’s really fun once you figure out the right shift points and learn to just dump it down a few gears to pass.

jasmits > CRider 11/25/2019 at 16:46

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Yup, as a Taco owner the bro contingent is way too real. Here in Oregon at least Tacos and 4Runners are by far the most commonly encountered vehicles in BLM and NF land, but for every pinstriped up one I see in the city I see five with thousands of bucks of modifications and not a pinstripe or battle scar in sight .

I see the appeal of dirt bikes, ATVs and SxSes but the open-ended exploration and backcountry camping are my favorite parts of off-pavement travel so I would find a tow vehicle way too limiting. And as to the Jeeps you can’t get much Jeep for less than the price of a TRD Off Road if you need more space than a two door provides. 

A-A-Ron > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/25/2019 at 17:02

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I bought the 2019 manual TRD offroad. I sold my 2002 TRD manual offroad with   230k miles on the 02' and still got over $7k for it. The 3.4L 3VZFE in the 02' was oil-leak free and strong. In the 15 years I had it, I routinely changed the plugs and belts and that’s it. Agreeing with several posts here, the tacoma engines are what makes the truck. However, s witching to the 3rd gen was a bit disappointing at first. 100 more horsepower, why is it so sluggish? And why the huge gap in ratios from 1st to 2nd gear? It took me about a month to figure out the sweet spots and now I love it. It performs great off-road, especially in 4low. I complained about the short 1st gear but not after a few desert crawling adventures. Let's see if it gets me 15 maintenance free years like the first gen did...

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 11/25/2019 at 17:08

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400ft/lbs, with a powerband from about 1500 when turbos fully spool to 6000rpms, moving 4300lbs with me in it, the shell, a full tank of gas and all my usual gear kept in the truck. It isn’t slower 0-60 than my former LT1 /6-speed manual C4 Vette. It’s faster 40-100 that the Vette was, but is much more traction limited at low speeds.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > jasmits 11/25/2019 at 17:09

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I agree that some better gear ratio selection would make it so much better.

jasmits > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/25/2019 at 18:37

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My assumption is that they were selected as a compromise between EPA cycles and what the people who buy these actually want, that’s the only rationale I can think of for such a huge 1-2 gap. Also shows how flawed the methodology is, I bet I’d get better fuel economy or worst-case the same with a shorter second because I wouldn’t need to wind it out so far in first.

If you consider the fact that it shares an engine with the Lotus Evora and drive it like you’d drive that it works much better, it’s not a very truckish power band but there’s no reason to be afraid of the redline. Lol it replaced a second gen 4Runner for me and shares the garage with a Range Rover Classic so trust me, in the grand scheme of things it is not gutless in the slightest .

CRider > jasmits 11/26/2019 at 02:04

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Dit bikes are the way to go if you want to explore. You can’t even compare how far you can go in a day on a bike vs a truck or Jeep, and that’s if you stick to places where trucks can go. There’s a whole world of ATV double track that only 50" or narrower vehicles can travel, and single track that only bikes can go on. If you plan to spend multiple days camping out of your vehicle and can’t do that on a bike with what you can carry, your setup is heavily going to depend on how many people you go with. Two people can get along fine in a 2 door Jeep with the rear seats removed. Trucks will provide for 4 people comfortably, but it’s really better to have multipl e vehicles anyway for safet y.

jasmits > CRider 11/26/2019 at 10:41

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That is true and I am thinking hard about a dirt bike because they look like a blast but I could only ever really see it complimenting my truck rather than replacing it. I backpack too so I could definitely camp multiple days off a bike, but I camp over 50 nights and 4 seasons a year so the comforts I can take with me in my truck are beyond worth it, especially in the winter. I’m also not sure you’re understanding the scale I’m talking about here. Like I just got back from spending two weeks on the road and in swing season in the Pacific Northwest that meant every type of condition  from the first picture to the second . It would’ve been pretty miserable on a bike.

When I spend a few weeks out like that being able to cook proper meals and sleeping in a comfortable rooftop tent with an actual mattress means I can stay out indefinitely feeling well rested and eating normal person food.  

On the size of a two door jeep I meant in general more than for exploration, my Tacoma is a great daily as well as adventure vehicle while a 2-door Jeep wouldn’t work as a daily for me even if it would work fine for all but the occasional camping trip where I bring friends besides off road and overland buddies who have their own vehicles and setups.

CRider > jasmits 11/26/2019 at 20:57

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For spending weeks at a time camping, motorcycles won’t work for any but the most iron of butts. There are people who do it (even in snow) but they’re pretty crazy . But if you have the space and payload to bring a bike with you, I think you’d have a gre at time , especially if you spend a couple days camped in one spot. It would allow you to really explore places you could’t otherwise go.

I think the biggest problem for extended overlanding trips like that that both the Taco and Wrangler have, is payload. IIRC Tacos only carry about 1400 lbs and when you add passengers and all the gear, food, water and fuel you need for the trip , that payload disappears pretty quickly.

Future next gen S2000 owner > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/27/2019 at 13:06

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The ratios aren’t ideal, I’ll admit. You can do 2nd from a stop, just take a bit of slipping the clutch with some revs.

I think the engine is a bit underpowered. It isn’t stellar until in comes on cam at about 3500 rpm. The power lives up high. I’m conflicted about this at it makes towing my boat out of the water a challenge without slipping the clutch like crazy. 4wd highs, and 4lo walks it out of the water like nobodies business. Flat ground is fine so maybe my particular case is an abnormality.

I think it would be a better package with a profile motor. It seems Toyota went for power through revs without giving consideration to how it acts when you need to be a truck. If you are commuting, it’s fine but if you are pushing it’s tow limit, the lack of low end grunt rears its ugly head.

jasmits > CRider 11/27/2019 at 21:37

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It’s type two fun! I’ve done multiweek backpacking trips, I’m happy that I have and I definitely would again but it’s not something I’m really itching to go do all the time.

I’d need to do a hitch carrier which I’m not really sure would be worth it. And yeah, I’ve run through a weigh station with pretty much everything I ever would bring including a lot of spare water and fuel and I did have 200 pounds still. So it’d be tight but not much over if at all. Which, idk. On one hand I don’t want to play with it, on the other hand people weigh a lot so pretty much any minivan you see with full seats of adults going on a trip is probably overweight, most people don’t even think about it. 

CRider > jasmits 11/27/2019 at 23:07

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Ex treme camping is something everyone should do but it’s not something everyone needs to do all the time. Definitely fun though.

Hitch carriers work OK, but it’s a lot of tongue weight to put on an already loaded up truck, especially when you plan on putting the suspension through work off road. Plus you lose any decent departure angle you had without it. But you do get to bring a bike, which will be worth it if you can make it work. Out of curiousity, I looked up the payload of the Honda Oddyssey and it looks like it’s about 1,500 lbs so 8 adults could definitely push the limits- though 8 adults would be pretty uncomfor table in one anyway.

There’s a time to comment. > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 11/29/2019 at 03:33

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Nope. It isn’t the gearing or the engine. It’s the driving style. What I’m hearing is you expect it to behave like an automatic, where you don’t have to shift so often to keep at an exact speed. Except an automatic not only shifts often, it also has a torque converter.

Needing to downshift from 6th is kind of the point of 6th or even 5th, seeing as both are overdriven. Short 1st gear and a leap to 2nd is extremely common. Cars tend to smooth that out, because they’re cars. My 1990 FJ75’s 5-speed behaves remarkably similar to my 2012 Tacoma’s 6-speed. Every manual Jeep or manual f-150 behaves basically the same.

I daily my Tacoma and run it off-road long distances (many  trips hundreds of miles each ). I have no complaints, and I’m someone who has happily re-geared two transmissions to suit my preferences or needs.

I won’t buy an automatic. The driving experience is boring and irritating. Think a manual drives funny? Drive it long enough to develop a driving style that works well for the vehicle. It is a manual. You’re in control of what it does. An automatic, not so much.